It has to be in the same place." Because that was the feedback we were getting: "This is cool, but this should be on my actual EHR. This cannot be a complimentary thing they do on the side for the good of humanity. The thought switched to, "Okay, this has to be the primary EHR. It became pretty obvious that this idea that providers would spend time to create more complex cases like that was unrealistic. It looked interesting, but we had zero idea about whether this was a viable business, or if people would pay for it, or if doctors would use it. I met my co-founder who started coding up some data structures and UIs to build those inputs. I was thinking first, what if you made a tool to allow providers to make these kinds of cases, not for EHR purposes, but to share with each other and create a rich PDF of complex patient conditions? So if the next person's mom has a similar problem, the doctor could search on a highly structured complex case database - kind of like PubMed but structured data oriented. My original idea was pretty far from Carbon Health today. Honestly, the actual chart is pretty much the same idea still, from 2013. She said it would be a dream if things worked like that versus the reality, which was very far from there. I made a couple sketch files and showed them to my sister. I'm a decent designer, and I made a couple sketches about how I would build the EHR if somebody asked me to. It wasn't just the useless part of the EHR it was the important medical records in a nice presentation. The 65-year-old with this problem here's the findings. My sister shared some presentations from case conferences with me where they would present a complex case to other physicians. My naïve question was: If all the doctors are looking at these thousand-page documents in the same way, writing the same notes, and my sister has to prepare, why doesn't the EHR already look like that? Why doesn't it actually map to how providers look at medical records? But meanwhile, I'm kind of useless, right? I was just tagging along. When she applied the treatment, it worked perfectly so my mom recovered. She had heard of neuro sarcoidosis, but had never seen a case herself. She had this theory that maybe it's happening in the neural system right now. She's a physician, so she was able to provide a lot of context before other specialists looked at it.Įventually one of the physicians (I think the neurologist) said, "The lab results look like sarcoidosis," which is an autoimmune disease, but normal sarcoidosis happens in the respiratory system. She had folders and printed out the MRIs and highlighted specific sections. We had lab results, MRIs, PET scans, and my sister nicely categorized everything. My mom was at home so she could not travel, but we would go from doctor to doctor with a couple thousand pages of documents. My sister had arranged 12, 13 different specialists to look at what was happening. But I had to take two, three months away from my Udemy CEO job. My interest started in 2013, when my mom had this completely unexplained stroke. To kick off, it would be fascinating to hear your journey and what made you take the leap from Udemy to Carbon? But I think it is still an order of magnitude more complicated. Similarly, at Carbon I was hoping I'd picked a part of the market which is more of a consumer decision. We did it in a way that allowed us to scale without the friction that would exist if you had to sell to small school systems. We had online video courses that people could buy. So maybe that's the secret to building a big business: do the harder one first, then come to healthcare and see how it goes from there.Įducation is tough, but our business at Udemy wasn't very hard. I feel like you might be the only person who's started in an industry that's more convoluted and harder than healthcare. I want to highlight that reported valuation was more at 2021 prices, so just want to put it in context. You've built a massive primary care company, Carbon was reportedly valued most recently over $3 billion. Eren started a hugely successful education company previously in Udemy that went public and then went into healthcare to fix one of the other hardest industries around. Today on Vital Signs we're excited to have Eren Bali, the founder and CEO of Carbon Health.
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